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Alcohol for French Polish
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Author:  guitarradTJ [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Alcohol for French Polish
Hello all! Getting ready to French Polish my first build. From what I've researched, most builders prefer Everclear grain alcohol. I can only get their 150 proof here in California. But I can buy this Polish brand that's 192 proof, 96℅ alcohol. Anyone use this before or see any problems using it?
Thanks for any responses!

https://www.hitimewine.net/polmos-192pf ... 750-162588

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Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I haven't checked in a while, but Hock was selling some real nifty super high purity alcohol for shellac work... I would use that if I was doing shellac work.

I really don't like the idea of using alcohol with water in it for shellac work if I can help it... Water makes shellac take forever to dry. But I am not really using shellac these days either.
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
If you can't get Everclear, I can recommend Behkol, the denatured alcohol sold by Behlen's. I hear good things about Klean Strip Green, but I have not personally used it.

If any of California's border states let you buy Everclear, it is worth the road trip to go get some.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Everclear is 195 proof. My guess is the 192 would work. You could try it and if it doesn't then you can throw one hell of a punch party. In Virginia you can't buy it off the shelf but you can get a permit or jsut fill out a form to get it. You might want to check into that in CA. I just get mine when traveling through Georgia which I do at least once a year.
Author:  wbergman [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
A previous post noted that 100% ethanol will rapidly suck up water form the air to reach the azeotrope concentration, which is about what the two mentioned boozes are.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Everclear as the others said and be sure to get the 195% stuff. Some states sell it at about 130 proof which is not as good.... for FP that is.

I can't get it in Michigan but I can across the Indiana state line.
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Hesh wrote:
Everclear as the others said and be sure to get the 195% stuff. Some states sell it at about 130 proof which is not as good.... for FP that is.

I can't get it in Michigan but I can across the Indiana state line.

So after doing some research I found that Everclear comes in 151 and 190 proof. I still can only get the 151 here in CA. The brand I found is 192. I'm not close to Nevada or Arizona where they sell the 190 Everclear. Thinking of giving it a try.... Kind of nerve wracking, am I over thinking this???

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Author:  James Orr [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I'd be interested in knowing what the 195 stuff you found is, Raul. I used 151 Everclear from Bev Mo though and had fine results.
Author:  dpetrzelka [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I use 190 proof Everclear with great results.

Wear gloves or you'll have a mighty hangover.
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
James Orr wrote:
I'd be interested in knowing what the 195 stuff you found is, Raul. I used 151 Everclear from Bev Mo though and had fine results.

Here it is, found it at a local spirits store
https://www.hitimewine.net/polmos-192pf ... 750-162588

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Author:  mqbernardo [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
wbergman wrote:
A previous post noted that 100% ethanol will rapidly suck up water form the air to reach the azeotrope concentration, which is about what the two mentioned boozes are.

Correct, for any practical purposes you can't get alcohol to be above 96% (in volume, about 92% in weight iirc). As soon as you open a bottle at room temperature it forms an equilibrium with air mosture. Alcohol is extremely hygroscopic. In fact you can use a bit of alcohol to dry a wet surface, it absorbs the water and both evaporate much more quickly than water alone would. Don't know how 96% translates into US proof though.
I just use regular desnaturared alcohol.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Proof = (actual alcohol content) x 2

My guess is that it was a marketing campaign to make certain spirits appear stronger.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Green Label Kleen strip, 8$8/qt at the haredware store. Just as good as everclear but you can't drink it......
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip- ... /202249513
Author:  wbergman [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
Supposedly the fumes of any of the denatured products are harmful.
Author:  John Cavanaugh [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
B. Howard wrote:
Green Label Kleen strip, 8$8/qt at the haredware store. Just as good as everclear but you can't drink it......
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip- ... /202249513


I looked up the MSDS on this. It's 80-90% ethanol, less than 5% methanol. I think that's about as safe as any denatured alcohol you're going to find.
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
wbergman wrote:
Supposedly the fumes of any of the denatured products are harmful.

That's why I'm trying to stay away from the denatured stuff. Already work with too many fumes here at work!

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Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
The Alcohol we drink is probably more dangerous than any we might use in french polishing! laughing6-hehe
Author:  Tim L [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
At my fathers wake, years ago, my brother and I started to bring down the two Fanta bottles he brought back from Ireland filled with a clear tea :shock:
My uncle ran over and told us not to drink any of it as it would make us go blind.

I've most likely inhaled lots worse than denatured alcohol in my life. So far it smells lots better than laquer. I use the Kleen strip green from Home Depot.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
guitarradTJ wrote:
wbergman wrote:
Supposedly the fumes of any of the denatured products are harmful.

That's why I'm trying to stay away from the denatured stuff. Already work with too many fumes here at work!

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i probably should add that in this part of the world denatured alcohol is 99,75% 96 º alcohol and 0,24% cetrimide. cetrimide doesn´t produce fumes at room temperature and its toxic dose is 3,9 g/kg. So an average adult would need to drink A LOT of alcohol to get any effect. it´s an antiseptic that is used in some cosmetics (such as shampoos) in up to 10% percentages. it+s use in alcohol is due to its bitter taste.

now, methanol - that is nasty stuff.
Author:  johnparchem [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
B. Howard wrote:
Green Label Kleen strip, 8$8/qt at the haredware store. Just as good as everclear but you can't drink it......
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip- ... /202249513


The Green Kleen strip is pretty clean and way cheaper than everclear. It is 80-90% Ethanol and less than 5% methanol. Many of the DA are close to 50-50. Here is the safety data sheet.

http://www.kleanstrip.com/uploads/documents/QKGA75003_SDS-1623.pdf
Author:  Toonces [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
If at all possible, please use drinkable ethanol. As others have stated, you will need the 190 proof. Methanol is nasty stuff and my personal opinion is to minimize exposure to these type of chemicals. I picked up 4 bottles of Everclear on a trip to GA since Florida doesn't carry it. Another option is to find alcohol denatured with Isopropyl Alcohol which would be much safer but I wouldn't be getting anywhere near Methanol unless you are very well protected. Certainly, not rubbing on a finish with it as a component of the solution.
Author:  TimAllen [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I spent some time this morning looking into the possibility that ingestion of small amounts of methanol, through inhalation and/or skin contact, could cause cumulative harm over the long term. The question has not been investigated in depth, that I could find, so it is not surprising that there is no conclusive evidence either way.

There's plenty of evidence that people who inhaled methanol fumes in poorly ventilated areas (while varnishing beer vats, operating old-fashioned "spirit" duplicators, etc.) experienced health problems. There's also evidence that people (and labratory animals) that inhaled a small amount of methanol fumes in a short period had no measurable ill effects.

Based on what I found, I think it's reasonable to believe you can safely French polish with a solution containing methanol in a well-ventilated area, wearing gloves. It's also reasonable to consider the safety of that somewhat questionable and to spend some extra effort to avoid methanol.

Considering the long history of ill effects being discovered in chemicals previously thought to be more or less safe, I personally am uncomfortable with the idea of breathing methanol fumes hour after hour, guitar after guitar, knowing that in high and medium quantities they are harmful. There are safer alternatives for finishing, including using ethanol. There are a lot of little risks in guitar making, and they can add up. I try to reduce each one as much as is practical, IMHO.

There's a thorough, and to me interesting, review here: http://www.thetruthaboutstuff.com/pdf/(107)%20Kavet%20Methanol%20Vapor%20Toxic%20Dosage%20for%20Man.pdf. The main conclusions are discussed starting around page 43. A Material Safety Data Sheet for methanol is here: http://svmsl.chem.cmu.edu/vmsl/GCMS/methanolmsds.pdf
Author:  doncaparker [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I can't buy Everclear 190 proof here in West Virginia, but they sell it in neighboring Kentucky. I am over there a lot, so picking up some at the liquor store is easy for me.

I have used some of the higher quality denatured alcohols for French polish in the past, but using Everclear is such a nicer experience. It smells better, and I don't have to worry about a harmful chemical working its way into my bloodstream. It works well for the job at hand, too. Ticks all the boxes. I'll gladly pay a little more for that better experience.
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
I'm seeing some people mention 195 proof Everclear so I had to go check my bottle, it's 190 proof.
I'll be in Indiana in a few weeks maybe I'll pick up some 195 proof. Booze is cheaper there than Kansas.
Author:  wbergman [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alcohol for French Polish
My recollection is that the strongest Everclear was 95% (which is~the azeotrope), which translates to 190 proof. How about if some of you who are writing 195 proof take a glance at your bottle and confirm that.
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